编者按

　　理性对话凝共识，文明互鉴共发展。为深化中西文明交流，更好推动中华文化的国际传播，中国孔子网策划推出“汉学中西问”专栏，旨在通过对话知名汉学家，聆听中西文化声音，感受文明交流互鉴的和谐共融。本期采访嘉宾为意大利罗马第二大学院士、首批来山东驻研的国际汉学家Riccardo Pozzo（里卡多·波佐）。

　　Q: Professor Pozzo, how did you first come into contact with Chinese culture and gradually develop a strong interest in it, leading you to delve deeper into your research? Did any specific event play a critical role in this process?

　　问：波佐教授，您是如何第一次接触到中国文化并逐渐对其产生浓厚兴趣，进而深入研究的？是否有任何特定事件在这一过程中发挥了关键作用？

　　ANS:As a matter of fact, I can say I was born as a member of Cultural China, which according to TuWeiming is the expression that designates the third sphere of impact of Chinese thought and tradition beyond mainland China and the huaqiaodiaspora: namely the sphere of those persons who had a significant experience with Chinese culture at any point of their lives. In my case, as I was hinting, it happened very soon, for I was raised by my grandfather who had had on his own a significant experience with Chinese culture,having spent a term as naval attaché at the Italian Legation in the Peking Legation Quarter from 1925 to 1929 and continued serving as navy officer on vessels between Shanghai, Guangzhou, Singapore and Tokyo until 1933. My childhood was full of grandfather’s stories about China, full also of the Chinese artworks that are still in the house.

　　答：事实上，我可以说我生来就是文化中国人，根据杜维明教授的说法，文化中国是指除了中国大陆和华侨华人以外，中国思想传统产生影响的第三个领域：即那些在生活中的任何时刻对中国文化发生深刻体验的人。就我而言，正如我所暗示的，这样的体验很早就发生了，因为我是由祖父抚养长大，他本人对中国文化有过丰富的体验，曾于1925年至1929年期间在意大利驻北京公使馆担任海军武官，并随后在轮船上担任海军军官，往返于上海、广州、新加坡和东京之间，直到1933年。我的童年充满了祖父讲的中国故事，家中也至今充满各种中国艺术作品。

　　Q: What specific viewpoints or concepts of Chinese culture have particularly attracted you in your research process? How have these areas of interest influenced your academic research methods and directions?

　　问：在您的研究过程中，中国文化的哪些具体观点或概念特别吸引你？这些兴趣领域是如何影响您的学术研究方法和方向的？

　　ANS:The viewpoint that has attracted me most was that of spiritual humanism, which I become familiar with upon meeting in 2013 at Peking University, my distinguished colleague Tu Weiming, with whom I share membership in the Institut International de Philosophie, and who is undoubtedly the most important living Neo-confucian philosopher and the champion of China’s spiritual humanism.

　　“Human beings can enlarge the Way, the Way cannot enlarge human beings” (人能弘道，非道弘人, Analects15:28). Professor Tu has noted that the meaning of this statement by Confucius is quite different from the Greek idea that the human being is the measure of all things, and that he/she has the power to change the natural course of action. In other words, the form of human life envisioned by Confucius is not anthropocentric (人类中心主义), as it was the case for the Greek sophists and the Renaissance humanists. Rather, it is anthropocosmic (天人合一的) in the sense that there is implicit mutuality, constant communication, and dynamic interaction between the anthropological world and the cosmic order (Tu Weiming, The Global Significance of Concrete Humanity: Essays on the Confucian Discourse in Cultural China. New Delhi: New Delhi Centre for Studies in Civilizations, 2010, 187).

　　答：最吸引我的观点是精神人文主义，我于2013年在北京大学与我的杰出同事杜维明会面时就了解了这一点，杜维明和我同为国际哲学学院的成员，他无疑是当世最重要的新儒家哲学家和中国精神人文主义的卫士。

　　“人能弘道，非道弘人”（《论语》15章28节）。杜教授指出，孔子这句话的含义与希腊哲学的观点截然不同，后者认为人是万物的尺度，有能力改变自然的行为过程。换句话说，孔子所设想的人类生活形式并不像希腊诡辩家和文艺复兴时期的人文主义者所设想的是人类中心主义的，而是天人合一的，因为人类世界和宇宙秩序之间存在着隐含的相互关系、不断的交流和动态的互动（杜维明，《具体之仁的全球意义：中国文化中的儒家话语论文集》。新德里：新德里文明研究中心，2010，187）。

　　Q: You have conducted in-depth research on Tu Weiming’s“spiritual humanism.” How do you view Professor Tu Weiming’s concept of "spiritual humanism"? How can “spiritual humanism” promote cultural exchange and dialogue between East and West in the context of globalization?

　　问：您对杜维明的“精神人文主义”进行了深入的研究。您如何看待杜教授的“精神人文主义”概念？“精神人文主义”如何在全球化背景下促进东西方文化交流与对话？

　　ANS:As Professor Tu says, the Confucian human agent, endowed with rich inner resources for self-transformation, is a servant, partner, and co-creator of Heaven, the Way. As a servant, the mandate of Heaven works through the human agent for its own realization. We know that Confucius at 40 had no more doubts and at 50 he knew the mandate of the heavens (天命) (Analects 4.1).As a partner, the human agent, by self-cultivation, transmits the culture wished for by Heaven. As a co-creator, the human agent joins Heaven in a collaborative enterprise to bring to completion the cosmic process. The human agent obeys the rules and innovates within the limits of the universe. This is what defines spiritual humanism in the Chinese tradition(Tu Weiming 2010, 188).

　　As regards the East-West dialogue, I seea substantial convergence between Chinese tiandi(天地) and Teilhard de Chardin’s understanding of the interconnectedness of biosphere, noosphere and the human being. It is not by change that the last line of Teilhard’s Le phénomène humain(Paris: Seuil, 1955) is dated “Peking June 1938-June 1940,” for Teilhard had been living in Peking from 1938 to 1946. The universe (天下) is permeated by a double cosmic energy: the tangential energy (切线能) that connects an element with other elements of the same order, and the radial energy (轴心能) that pushes an element towards contexts of higher complexity. The French twentieth-century philosopher Pierre Teilhard de Chardin interpreted the dichotomy of yinyang(陰陽), with tian(天), the noosphere (精神圈)that expresses the tangential energy in a descending order to the myriad things, anddi(地), the biosphere (生物圈) that pushes life radially towards higher levels of complexity.

　　答：正如杜教授所说，儒家的人被赋予自我转化的丰富内在资源，是天即道的服务者、参与者和共同缔造者。作为仆人，天命通过人来实现自身。我们知道，孔子四十而不惑，五十而知天命（《论语》4章1节）。作为合作伙伴，人通过自我修养，传承上天所愿的文化。作为共同创造者，人加入了天的协作事业，以完成宇宙过程。人遵守规则，在宇宙的范围内进行创新，这就是中国传统中的精神人文主义（杜维明2010，188）。

　　关于东西方对话，我发现中国人的天地概念，与哲学家德日进对生物圈、精神圈和人类相互联系的理解，二者之间发生了深刻的融合。德日进的《人类现象》（巴黎：瑟伊出版社，1955）的最后一行标注日期为“1938年6月-1940年6月，北京”，这绝非偶然，并不仅是因为德日进于1938年至1946年期间在北京住过。宇宙（天下）充满了双重的宇宙能量：切线能，把同种类的元素相互联系在一起；轴心能，将元素推向更高更复杂的层次。二十世纪的法国哲学家德日进解释了阴阳二分法，认为天，即精神圈，以降序方式向万物表现出切线能量，地，即生物圈，以轴心能量将生命推向更高的复杂层次。

　　Q: How can we balance ethical differences between different cultural backgrounds in the process of constructing a global ethics?

　　问：在构建全球伦理的过程中，我们如何平衡不同文化背景之间的伦理差异？

　　ANS：Global ethics considers globalization in various forms of social activity including economic, political and cultural life. Issues of globalization ask for new approaches to address conflicts that arise when different cultural norms and practices collide (Kwasi Wiredu, “On the Idea of a Global Ethics.” Journal of Global Ethics 1 [2006]: 45-51). Globalization asks philosophy for an innovative narrative of inclusion and reflection. Today we need to craft a new code of global ethics to promote peace and global cooperation in the 21st century. To address the challenges of weak leadership and inefficiency within multilateral systems we need to find out philosophical foundations for ethical governance thatrespect harmony in diversity.

　　答：全球伦理学从经济、政治和文化生活等各种形式的社会活动来思考全球化。全球化中的问题要求采取新的方法来解决不同文化规范和实践碰撞时出现的冲突（Kwasi Wiredu，“关于全球伦理的理念”。《全球伦理学期刊》1[2006]:45-51）。全球化要求哲学对包容和反思进行创新叙事。今天，我们需要制定一套新的全球道德准则，以促进21世纪的和平与全球合作。为了应对多边体系内领导力薄弱和效率低下的挑战，我们需要找到重视和而不同的伦理治理方式的哲学基础。

　　Q: What unique perspectives or solutions can Confucianism provide for addressing ethical and governance issues in modern society?

　　问：儒家思想可以为现代社会的伦理和治理问题提供哪些独特的视角或解决方案？

　　ANS:It is the human being that connects with the noosphere, which surrounds the biosphere. The emergence of human consciousness, which Chinese philosophers identify in the Heart (xin 心), is bound to bring about a total unification of our planet.Chinese philosophers understand the cosmos as Heaven-Earth (tiandi天地), where Heaven (tian 天) is the spirit, the dominator, the creator, the sustainer, the revealer, and the judge; while Earth is the globe that clothes itself with a brain.Hence, one might argue then, that Chinese Heaven (tian 天) is the same as what we understand today as noosphere. Both function asan organized cloth across the planet. Both interact with the realm of the possibilityin human affairs.

　　答：正是人类与包围生物圈的精神圈产生连接。中国哲学家所认同的心，即人类意识的出现，必将带来我们这个星球的完全统一。中国哲学家把宇宙理解为天地，其中天是精神，是统治者、创生者、载行者、启示者和审判者；而地球是一个包裹于头脑中的地球。因此，有人可能会说，中国的天与我们今天所理解的“精神圈”是一样的，两者都是包裹地球的经纬交织的布，两者都与人类事务中的可能性领域发生相互作用。

　　Q:What are the main challenges facing current cultural exchanges between China and the West, including cultural differences, political factors, economic imbalances, and other aspects? How do you think these challenges should be addressed to promote deeper and broader cultural exchanges between China and the West?

　　问：当前中西文化交流面临的主要挑战是什么，包括文化差异、政治因素、经济不平衡等方面？您认为应该如何应对这些挑战，以促进中国和西方之间更深入、更广泛的文化交流？

　　ANS:Today, the notions of biosphere and noosphere contribute to ongoing debates concerning the effects of emerging technologies. They help tackling key challenges such as the green and digital transitions. Especially in China, where the twin transitions are taking place right now in compliance with Chinese thought and culture.The human being makes the Earth converge into Heaven, the total noosphere. This has become clear since technology has exploited radio-waves and is now constructing artificial intelligence, which is part of the noosphere, for it works on the sum of all thought contents that are in Heaven and that humanity has been disclosing in time.

　　In an anthropocosmic tiandi(天地) harmony (和) is achieved when the human being takes careof the biosphere, which is the worldwide sum of all ecosystems, the environment. This is the green transition.The noosphere, the thought that is spread over theInternet, ought to reach humans in all corners of the world at the same time in a healthy and sustainable way. This is the digital transition.

　　However, we know well that artificial intelligence must be confronted with human dignity. Machines that think on their own are provoking a crisis of freedom that is engendering new forms of slavery, such as the human inability of asserting or at least defending one’s freedom of attention. Also, it is not acceptable that a machine decides when to take the life of a human being.

　　答：今天，生物圈和精神圈的概念为当前有关新兴技术之影响的辩论做出贡献，有助于应对绿色转型和数字化转型等关键的挑战。特别是在中国，这两种转型正在按照中国式思维和文化上演。人类正把地聚合为天，而天则完全属于精神圈的范畴。这一点已经变得很清楚，因为技术已经利用了无线电波，正在构建人工智能，后者也是精神圈的一部分，因为它作用于人类一直在揭示的天的所有思想内容的总和。

　　在天人合一的天地概念中，和谐是当人类关怀生物圈时才产生，生物圈即全球所有生态系统和环境的总和。这就是绿色转型。精神圈，这一在互联网上广泛传播的思想，也应该以健康和可持续的方式同时触及世界各个角落的人类。这就是数字化转型。

　　然而，我们很清楚，人工智能必须直面人类尊严。独立思考的机器正在引发一场自由危机，这场危机正在催生新的奴役方式，比如人类无法主张甚至捍卫自己的注意力自由。此外，让机器来决定什么时候拿走人的生命也是不可接受的。

　　Q:In today’s increasingly globalized world, how do you view the status and role of Chinese culture in international exchanges? What are your new research directions or plans in the field of Chinese culture research?

　　问：在当今日益全球化的世界中，您如何看待中国文化在国际交流中的地位和作用？您在中国文化研究领域有哪些新的研究方向或计划？

　　ANS:The rapid expansion of the noosphere requires new realms of spiritual humanism.On July 1st, the United Nations Generally Assembly adopted China’s proposal to enhance cooperation on capacity building for artificial intelligence.This solution emphasizes artificial intelligence development should be “human-oriented, promote good, and benefit humanity”. The human being has only one Earth, and he/she has only one Heaven. Hence, the human being has only one intelligence.Artificial intelligence should benefit humanity. Artificial intelligence belongs to the noosphere. Hence, one might think that artificial intelligence has a spiritual nature.

　　答：精神圈的迅速扩张要求产生精神人文主义的新领域。7月1日，联合国大会通过了中国关于加强人工智能能力建设国际合作的提议。该方案强调人工智能发展应“以人为本，促进善，造福人类”。人类只有一个地球，只有一个天堂。因此，人类只有一种智能，人工智能应该造福人类。人工智能属于心灵圈的范畴，因此，也可以认为人工智能具有一种精神性质。